Holiday Gift Recommendations from Gathering Volumes

Denise Phillips (00:00):
If we don't support all of our unique local shops, we're all going to look exactly the same. Every town is going to look like an exit off 75.

Laura Maylene Walter (00:11):
Welcome to Page Count presented by the Ohio Center for the Book at Cleveland Public Library. This podcast celebrates authors, illustrators, librarians, booksellers, literary advocates, and readers in and from the state of Ohio. I'm your host, Laura Maylene Walter, the Ohio Center for the Book Fellow and author of the novel BODY OF STARS. Today we're joined by Denise Phillips, the owner of Gathering Volumes, an independent bookstore in Perrysburg, Ohio. Denise is here to provide us with some holiday gift giving recommendations. Denise, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for being here.

Denise Phillips (00:48):
Thank you so much for having me.

Laura Maylene Walter (00:50):
Well, let's start by learning a bit more about your store. So what can you tell us about Gathering Volumes?

Denise Phillips (00:56):
So we are an independent bookstore in Perrysburg, Ohio. We're just south of Toledo. When we opened in 2016, we were the only independent bookstore in Wood County, Ohio, which was the reason we opened. Um, was we moved here. I moved here from Chicago with my family and was surprised that there were no independent bookstores near us. And by independent bookstore I should say, I mean bookstores that sell new books. There's great used bookstores around here. We didn't have any that sold new books and so Gathering Volumes took me about five years to create a business plan and get opened. But we opened in 2016.

Laura Maylene Walter (01:31):
What is one of your favorite parts of running an independent bookstore?

Denise Phillips (01:35):
Oh, well I think it's got to be talking about books, <laugh>. So you know, obviously I'm an avid reader and I love to read, but it's also fun to talk to others about their experience with books. It's funny, we have one book club member that she's joined I think all of our book clubs at different times. She and I often like and dislike the same book. So if she likes it, I generally don't like it and if I like it, she doesn't like it. And it is so interesting to me because we've become friends and we like each other, but it's just so interesting to me that we have such different taste in books even though we'll pick the same book to read. It's just so interesting to me. So I love learning about, you know, what other people like and dislike about books so that I can better, you know, recommend books to people.

Laura Maylene Walter (02:18):
I love that kind of book friendship, now that I'm thinking about it, where your friend says, oh my gosh, I just read this book and I hated it. You've got to read it, you'll love it. You know, <laugh> it works.

Denise Phillips (02:28):
Yeah, it's so true. So often we just crack up about it now because it's just like when we start book club, if Melissa says she likes it, it's like, oh, I'm going to not like it <laugh>.

Laura Maylene Walter (02:39):
Well let's get into some book recommendations that you have for listeners who might be looking for books to purchase for a holiday gift as we come up to the holiday season. So I'm just going to ask you some questions and listeners, I'm sure all of you know this is the joy of going into an independent bookstore because you can say, I'm looking for a book about 'blank'. And the booksellers there are probably going to know because they're experts. Since we are the Ohio Center for the Book podcast, let's start with a recommendation you have for a book by an Ohio author.

Denise Phillips (03:15):
So this is such a tough question. As an independent Ohio bookstore, we try to carry support and recommend a lot of Ohio authors and I have a few that I think most people that know me well are sick of hearing me recommend over and over again. So I'm going to give you a few. First Kristen Lepionka's ROXANE WEARY series is a fantastic mystery series set in Columbus, but in book four, ONCE YOU GO THIS FAR, the P.I. Roxane heads up here to northwest Ohio and even up to Detroit for her investigation. Our book club has read every book in the series. We love Roxane. She's a flawed character whose personal struggles add intrigue to Kristen's excellently crafted mysteries. Second, I recommend Dan Stout's CARTER ARCHIVES a lot. It starts with a book called TITANSHADE and the series gets a lot of love from me. When I read a book that's out of my typical reading habits and genres that I can't put down, I figure everyone will love the book <laugh>.

Denise Phillips (04:11):
And TITANSHADE fits in this category. It's a sci-fi noir, urban fantasy, police procedural, but it's got fantastic characters and great character development and a lot of humor. It even has eight tracks in it, which as a Gen X kid, my dad's pickup truck had an eight track when I was growing up...so a little nostalgia there. So I recommend Dan Stout's CARTER ARCHIVES a lot. And the last one I'll mention is Anastasia Ryan's books, YOU SHOULD SMILE MORE and NOT BAD FOR A GIRL. They get categorized as romance by her publisher, but I categorize them as humor. They do have some romance in them, but they sit on my humor shelf and I think they belong in humor. And they are truly hilarious, especially for any woman who has worked in corporate America. The first book Anastasia wrote after she lost her job because her boss didn't like her face and she takes that experience and satirizes it into everything that is cringey in the office space from misogyny to Office Olympics. And then her second book takes on IT and how women are often criticized for being outspoken even when they are right and they're the smartest person in the room. And as a woman who left IT to open a bookstore, it hits home for me. So I'm going to recommend all three, Kristen Lepionka, Dan Stout, and Anastasia Ryan.

Laura Maylene Walter (05:30):
That's spoken like a true book lover. You ask for a book recommendation and you can't give one, you know you can't pick one favorite <laugh>. I totally get it. What about for the little one? So maybe a picture book that could be a good gift, especially a newer one that maybe the little one hasn't read yet or been exposed to yet.

Denise Phillips (05:49):
Oh absolutely. We're in the middle of school book fair season here. I just brought cases back from one book fair and we go to two more schools next week. So this is when I get to research and actually witness actual reactions from kids to the latest picture books. My kids are now high schoolers so I don't get to use them as guinea pigs anymore. I am especially excited about BARNABY UNBOXED! By the Fan brothers. I love all the Fan brothers books. So BARNABY UNBOXED! has a feel of kind of TOY STORY but maybe a little dark. So maybe like the Lots-o'-Huggin' Bear storyline in TOY STORY. So Barnaby is a toy based off a TV show in the book, right? And when a new version of his character comes out, he kind of gets forgotten by his child and he ends up running off and he discovers a new side to himself. And then later when he discovers that his child is still searching for him after some time on his own, he realizes she still loves him and they reunite and it's just super cute and it's got their classic like gorgeous illustrations.

Denise Phillips (06:55):
The students at the most recent book fair, I came back from really loved THE BAKERY DRAGON by Devin Elle Kurtz as well. And it's hard not to because her illustrations are so beautiful. Her cover is gorgeous and it's a story about a cute dragon named Ember and it just makes this feel good picture book that celebrates baked goods, dragons, and generosity. I'm going to do it again and recommend two instead of one.

Laura Maylene Walter (07:19):
That is completely fine. And who doesn't love baking and dragons? You know, we celebrate this.

Denise Phillips (07:25):
Right, and yeah, look up the covers, just beautiful.

Laura Maylene Walter (07:27):
I will, yeah. And listeners, I will of course be linking to all of these books in our show notes so you can check them out and then of course maybe order them from Gathering Volumes. What about a book for romance lovers, people who just want a good romantic storyline?

Denise Phillips (07:44):
So romance is a little tough for me. It's not my like biggest genre that I read and I feel like nowadays romance is really popular but there's so many genres within romance. So I enjoy the less spicy romances <laugh> and which tend to be the romances that don't get, you know, TikTok love. So I think I'm going to recommend Farrah Rochon's, PARDON MY FRENCHIE because it has romance and animals. And people may recognize Farrah Rochon because she writes for the super popular A TWISTED TALE series for Disney as well. But she also writes adult romance novels and they're usually very funny as PARDON MY FRENCHIE is, which is my romance reading alley...and you know, if you throw in some dogs.

Laura Maylene Walter (08:27):
I'm probably the same, romance isn't the genre I tend to read and whatever. I see just glimpses on TikTok of people talking about books it sounds like the spiciest of the spicy is what they're talking about with romance <laugh> so yeah.

Denise Phillips (08:41):
Yeah.

Laura Maylene Walter (08:41):
I just had on the podcast Libby Kay, who's an Ohio author in Columbus and she writes the sweet romances. So some non-spice there too. Yeah.

Denise Phillips (08:51):
Just had Jeneane O'Riley come to an event for us. She writes a very TikTok famous, I guess romantasy I think is how people are saying it out.

Laura Maylene Walter (08:59):
Yeah, yeah.

Denise Phillips (08:59):
So THE INFATUATED FAE series, she's in Columbus as well.

Laura Maylene Walter (09:02):
What about a YA novel, especially for a teen who just wants to sit down over winter break and maybe rip through a new book?

Denise Phillips (09:10):
Yeah, so this is another tough one for me to recommend only one. So I have two teams of my own and I'm also on the committee for the Northwest Ohio Teen Book Festival. So I read a lot of YA. We bring in over 20 authors every year and I try to read something by all of them. And again, there's so many genres within YA so it's hard to pick one favorite. So I'm going to recommend a few here as well. Be quick though. So Kristy Boyce is an Ohio YA author and her romances are super well crafted and her characters are so believable that I recommend her books a lot. And I particularly recommend DUNGEONS AND DRAMA a lot since my family is a bunch of D&D playing theater geeks and that's exactly what this book entails, <laugh>. So it has everything my family loves and I actually gave it to my son to read before the festival last year and he loved it. And the sequel DATING AND DUNGEONS is releasing this December. So we are all very excited about that. And then for a good thrill in YA I also love Mindy McGinnis, another Ohio author who never fails to deliver a great book. I do think every teen and their parents should read her book HEROINE as it depicts the reality of drug addiction and how a teen could possibly end up addicted. And I just saw her post, it was featured in, shoot, I don't watch a lot of TV, ONLY MURDERS...

Laura Maylene Walter (10:32):
IN THE BUILDING.

Denise Phillips (10:33):
Thank you! It was on his bookshelf, it was featured in the show, the recent episode, but it's also a banned book. So those who oppose book banning and like to read banned books, HEROINE by Mindy McGinnis is a good one. And finally my go-to recommendation for teen boys who I think it's harder to recommend books to because I just don't think there's as many written for them. Ohio author Kurt Dinan, DON'T GET CAUGHT is my teen boy like go-to recommendation. About a young man who gets pulled into a prank war and he's determined to get revenge in this prank war. And it's really funny and it sucks the reader in like right away.

Laura Maylene Walter (11:09):
You're making me think how exciting it is if you're watching a show or a movie and you see like a book, a real book in the wild, like behind them or just in the scene. Especially when it's a quote unquote, I don't want to say regular book, but like not the one blockbuster bestseller that everyone already knows about, you know, but other books that you would recognize in your store for example. I always find that really exciting.

Denise Phillips (11:32):
Yeah, during Covid when everybody was meeting on Zoom, right?

Laura Maylene Walter (11:35):
Yeah.

Denise Phillips (11:35):
And you're like trying to read the books behind them because so many people had their bookshelves behind them and you're like, I'm way more interested in what you read than what you're saying, right now? <laugh>

Laura Maylene Walter (11:43):
Absolutely.

Denise Phillips (11:45):
So. And then everybody started using generic ones.

Laura Maylene Walter (11:47):
Yeah. And then maybe I'll find the article and link to it about the companies that specialize in sending books for backgrounds. Like I need 50 books that are politically like neutral or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or left leaning or...

Denise Phillips (12:01):
Yeah, but that's so much less interesting than actually seeing your real bookshelf <laugh>.

Laura Maylene Walter (12:05):
Very depressing. It's very depressing. You could just put up a cardboard like backdrop <laugh>. But anyway, your recommendations will help our listeners fill their bookshelves with real books, right? So that's what we're doing. So speaking of amazing books, what about a book that you'd recommend that is award-winning? What's a book that has caught your eye that happens to also be an award winner?

Denise Phillips (12:28):
Okay, so I think if anybody hasn't read the MURDERBOT DIARIES yet, they should run out and get the first one, ALL SYSTEMS RED. I think all of the books in the series have won awards and I know Martha Wells has won multiple Hugo's and Nebula's. But ALL SYSTEMS RED also won the Alex and The Locust. So highly recommend it. I love recommending short weekend reads and it's definitely a short weekend read. It's more of a novella than a full novel. It is sci-fi, but it has fantastic character development. The books are told in a first person narrative by the murderbot and they're action packed. So they're very like page turner, quick reads. But they also explore social anxiety, ethics of AI and space exploration, and politics and greed. So they cover a lot in a really quick read.

Laura Maylene Walter (13:19):
What about a graphic novel that you love to recommend?

Denise Phillips (13:23):
Okay, so this is probably going to be an odd choice. I have a son that reads a lot of manga. We carry a lot of graphic novels, but I really thought Nora Krug's graphic adaptation of Timothy Snyder's ON TYRANNY was fantastic. I don't know if you've seen it. ON TYRANNY uses like the darkest moments in 20th century history from Nazism to communism to teach 20 lessons on resisting modern day authoritarianism. And it in itself was wonderful, but the graphic novel adaptation the way Nora Krug, I hope I'm pronouncing her last name properly, the way she decides to show it graphically is I just think is like topnotch. So Nora Krug adaptation of Timothy Snyder's ON TYRANNY.

Laura Maylene Walter (14:09):
I'll have to check that out. I always try to read more graphic novels. I really enjoy them and I haven't seen that one yet. So this is really, this whole episode is just my excuse to get book recommendations from a bookseller. So <laugh>, another kind of category that I have been trying to read more of that I really enjoy are books in translation. So do you have any recommendations in that area?

Denise Phillips (14:31):
I do. I try to read at least one translated book a year. I usually read a few more, but I'm a total sucker for dark Russian books that like take me down this dark hole. So I'm going to go with VITA NOSTRA for this one. It was written by husband and wife Marina and Sergey...oh, I'm going pronounce the last name poorly. I can like hear it in in my head, but I can't say it. Dyachenko.

Laura Maylene Walter (14:53):
That's fine. I will link to it.

Denise Phillips (14:55):
D-Y-A-C-H-E-N-K-O.

Laura Maylene Walter (14:57):
Okay.

Denise Phillips (14:57):
So they were born in Ukraine, lived in Russia, and then moved to the U.S. And sadly Sergey passed away in 2022. But VITA NOSTRA has adventure, magic, science, and philosophy that probes like just existence. I would compare it to THE BEAR AND THE NIGHTINGALE by Katherine Arden, which is also a favorite book of mine, but darker.

Laura Maylene Walter (15:20):
What about a thriller? Something that's just impossible to put down?

Denise Phillips (15:24):
This is another genre that's a little tough for me, I read a lot of mystery, but I don't read a lot of thrillers. So what I'm going to recommend is STAY AWAKE by Megan Goldin. I liked it because while you're reading it, it's kind of disorienting, you know, obviously she's having some mental problems and she's trying to convince herself to stay awake. But as you're reading, like you almost as a reader feel like you're doubting your own logic and memory as well. And it definitely like kept me up way too late. So I'm going to recommend STAY AWAKE by Megan Goldin.

Laura Maylene Walter (15:54):
Anything that keeps you awake that you can't go to sleep because you're still reading it...I feel like that's always a sign of an amazing book. And I will add, since I know we have a lot of writers who listen to this podcast, if you are a thriller reader, maybe try THE WRITING RETREAT by Julia Bartz is kind of a...

Denise Phillips (16:12):
Oh that was good too.

Laura Maylene Walter (16:13):
Yeah, it was a competition for writers.

Denise Phillips (16:17):
Yeah, where this like super popular writer was going to like pick the winner and help them become a bestseller.

Laura Maylene Walter (16:22):
Yeah. And then of course they're in a creepy house in the middle of nowhere and terrible things ensue. So there's another recommendation. Yeah.

Denise Phillips (16:29):
And there's also THE GOLDEN SPOON, which is like the TV, like Great British Bake show kind of thriller.

Laura Maylene Walter (16:35):
Oh, I haven't read that one. So switching to some non-fiction, what about a book that in some way focuses on animals or nature? Sometimes I just love to learn something new about our world, but what would you recommend?

Denise Phillips (16:49):
Okay, so I do need to make a little like caveat on this one.

Laura Maylene Walter (16:52):
Okay.

Denise Phillips (16:53):
So my choice for this one is a combination of memoir science and history. And I've learned that some readers were upset because the title makes it sound like it's completely science and they didn't realize they were getting the memoir and history part to it too. So I just want to make that super clear before I recommend it. But I have had a fascination with eels ever since I watched a TV show that I can't remember the name of a long time ago about a man who fished for eels. So another quick caveat, if you don't approve of fishing, you aren't going to like this book either. However, THE BOOK OF EELS by Patrik Svensson examines what we know and do not know, which there's a whole lot that we do not know about eels. But it also has wonderful nature writing. He talks about going fishing with his father as a kid. It talks about some scientific history. It actually talks about some mythology and storytelling about yields too. So I just thought it was all around an excellent book.

Laura Maylene Walter (17:47):
I can't believe you recommended that one because I have had it on my bookshelf. I bought it last year at Loganberry, an indie bookstore here in Cleveland.

Denise Phillips (17:54):
Yeah.

Laura Maylene Walter (17:56):
And I just haven't read it yet. It's one of those books where every time I finish another book I think should I pick up the eel book? And it just hasn't happened yet, <laugh>.

Denise Phillips (18:03):
You could read it in parts too, like the first chapter probably has the most science in it of the whole book about eels. But you could totally read it in parts and be like, okay, I need a little eel break and then go to something else and come back to it.

Laura Maylene Walter (18:17):
That's good to know because I think just from reading the back of the book, is it that we don't know how eels reproduce how they mate.

Denise Phillips (18:24):
We don't know a ton of stuff. There's a ton of stuff. We don't even, we don't know how they die. Like some eels live 50 years and then others they think die the minute they mate. Like it's, it's crazy. We don't know a lot about eels <laugh>, but you also get fun stories about him and his dad fishing together and yeah.

Laura Maylene Walter (18:42):
Okay. Well and I personally like a mashup of some science, some memoir, some history, you know, just put it all in there, is what I say. So I think that sounds great. I will be picking that up. What about a book that is just beautifully designed? So the book itself might feel like a work of art that could often be a good gift to someone. What do you recommend?

Denise Phillips (19:04):
Yeah, so we are in the area of Ohio that has a lot of birding stuff going on. Like we have the biggest week in birding here. So my best choice for this one, for a newer book I think is, ORNITHOGRAPHY, I hope I, I don't know, I'm terrible with saying the words that I read, but it's AN ILLUSTRATED GUIDE TO BIRD LORE AND SYMBOLISM and it's by Jessica Roux. The cover is beautiful as is the artwork inside the book for each bird that is featured. So that's my recommendation for a book that is a work of art.

Laura Maylene Walter (19:37):
Okay. So let's be real. A lot of us or a lot of people might be watching Netflix or scrolling on their phones during time that we could be reading. So what would you recommend for someone who maybe has a New Year's resolution, like I want to spend a little less time on social media and a little more time reading. What is a book that you think might help them get over that hurdle?

Denise Phillips (20:01):
My first instinct is like, don't all books fall into this category?

Laura Maylene Walter (20:05):
<Laugh> Yes, yes.

Denise Phillips (20:05):
I am a big believer in reading what you want to read at the time you want to read it. So for me, when I need to escape, I tend to go into a good fantasy series because it lets me escape the real world. So again, I don't have just one recommendation, but V.E. Schwab's DARKER SHADE OF MAGIC, Naomi Novik's SCHOLOMANCE series and R. F. Kuang's POPPY WAR, all to me fit into this category that I would recommend to anyone who wants to escape the real world as well as the virtual world of social media and TikTok and YouTube and all of that.

Laura Maylene Walter (20:41):
Yeah, I think that's also just such good broad advice. Like read what you want when you want to read it. Especially I think for a lot of writers or people grew up reading or studying English in school, there's almost this sense like, I should be reading this or I should be doing this, or I have to finish this book because I started it. But you know, if you're reading for pleasure, you don't have an assignment, you know. So just pick up what is grabbing you in the moment. Yeah, I think that's great.

Denise Phillips (21:07):
When you asked about like award winners, I was like, oh, I should go out and purposefully read more award winners.

Laura Maylene Walter (21:14):
And awards can be arbitrary, but yeah, yeah, it's, you got to read what you're interested in because if you think you should only be reading, you know, for certain readers, the serious literary books, but you don't enjoy them, what are, you know, what's the point? What are you doing? What is a book you'd recommend? It could be either fiction or nonfiction that you think writers might especially enjoy.

Denise Phillips (21:36):
We do a lot of events obviously with authors and I often hear writers say that they read in their genre when they aren't writing and then when they are writing they can't read in their genre. So I picked a couple genre defying books here. I highly recommend PEW by Catherine Lacey and RING SHOUT by it's P Clark, there's a middle name that I'm going to kill, P Djèlí Clark. So I put PEW under contemporary fiction. I put RING SHOUT under horror, but they both could be defined in other categories I think as well. So I'm going to call them genre defying. They're both quick reads, they're both fairly short, but they are complex in their simplicity and I think they're both huge literary accomplishments. And if I were writing a book, I would want to emulate both of them. But I don't, I don't write. In PEW, the protagonist name is Pew and is a raceless, sexless, nameless and mute outsider who defies character conventions. PEW the novel explores themes of identity conditional charity and resistance and it's just fantastic. RING SHOUT is a fun but deadly serious triumph of the imagination. It contains African folklore, body horror, and dark humor. And it reminded me of the horrors of racism depicted in Toni Morrison's BELOVED, combined with Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Laura Maylene Walter (22:58):
Oh my gosh, what a mashup.

Denise Phillips (23:00):
So those are the two I'm going to recommend for writers just because I just feel like they're both masterpieces and like, don't follow any of the traditional rules.

Laura Maylene Walter (23:08):
Fabulous recommendation, man. Buffy and Toni Morrison. What a dream.

Denise Phillips (23:13):
Right! <laugh>

Laura Maylene Walter (23:14):
And then finally, my last book question: a book that you wish more people knew about.

Denise Phillips (23:20):
This is hard too because I talk about books often and I'm like, oh, like people know about this book or do people not know about this book? So I'm going to again, go a little more, like more than one book. Everything by Kazuo Ishiguro again, hopefully I'm pronouncing their name right, but especially NEVER LET ME GO. It's just a beautifully written, atmospheric, lovely book that will rip your heart out. So I'm going to say NEVER LET ME GO by Ishiguro.

Laura Maylene Walter (23:47):
Yeah, I agree with that description of that book very much. And I'm not sure I get the sense that, when did that come out in the, I feel like the nineties, I'm not sure when it came out. Maybe the early two thousands.

Denise Phillips (23:58):
I feel like that one was a little bit later because REMAINS OF THE DAY...I'm not good at remembering when books came out either, but I mean, I think we're still getting books by Ishiguro.

Laura Maylene Walter (24:09):
Yes. Yes.

Denise Phillips (24:09):
Aren't we?

Laura Maylene Walter (24:10):
Yes. I think KLARA...KLARA AND THE SUN.

Denise Phillips (24:13):
KLARA AND THE SUN was so good too. Yeah.

Laura Maylene Walter (24:14):
Yeah. I feel like NEVER LET ME GO, I haven't heard as much about it lately and it was a movie, but I haven't watched the film version, but I should, you're making me want to check that out, so.

Denise Phillips (24:24):
Oh, see, I don't watch any movies, so I don't even know when books are movies half the time. But yeah, I just, I feel like that book everybody should read.

Laura Maylene Walter (24:32):
Absolutely. Thank you for all those recommendations. This is so helpful. I think you have given all of us a lot of ideas for shopping or for ourselves. Before we wrap up, what would you like to tell listeners about why it's important to shop in independent bookstores? Or why would you encourage someone to check out wherever they live, their own independent local bookstore versus automatically buying it online? I'm curious what your thoughts are.

Denise Phillips (24:58):
So, a couple things. One is you're going get a much better curated recommendation list from your local bookstore. You're going to get authors that are more local. You're going to get content that appeals more locally. I think then you're going to get from an algorithm that's just picking the books more people are buying. I also think as someone who lives in a town that sadly is going this way, if we don't support all of our unique local shops, we're all going to look exactly the same. Every town is going to look like an exit off 75. Because we're just going to have all of the same national brands in our storefronts and then a whole lot of insurance brokers, right? Like <laugh>. So I think it's twofold. I think one, you're going to get better book recommendations for you, and two, I think you're going to keep your community unique and vibrant.

Laura Maylene Walter (25:51):
Thank you so much for taking the time to recommend all these books for us and you know, for giving us an episode that's full of eels and dragons and murderbots. It's been a real treat. <laugh>

Denise Phillips (26:05):
<laugh> Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Laura Maylene Walter (26:12):
Page Count is presented by the Ohio Center for the Book at Cleveland Public Library. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate ,and leave a review for Page Count wherever you get your podcast. Learn more online or find a transcript of this episode at ohiocenterforthebook.org. Follow us on Instagram @ohiocenterforthebook or find us on Facebook. If you'd like to get in touch, email ohiocenterforthebook@cpl.org and put "podcast" in the subject line. Thanks for listening, and we'll be back in two weeks for another chapter of Page Count.