Literary Screening: The Tender Bar with RW Franklin

RW Franklin (00:00):
"Like nothing else, words organized my world." When I read that, I was just like, oh my goodness. Yes. That's why I love words so much. They just make the world make sense for me.

Laura Maylene Walter (00:14):
Welcome to Page Count, presented by the Ohio Center for the Book at Cleveland Public Library. This podcast celebrates authors, illustrators, librarians, booksellers, literary advocates, and readers in and from the state of Ohio. I'm your host, Laura Maylene Walter, the Ohio Center for the Book Fellow and author of the novel BODY OF STARS. Today we're joined by RW Franklin, a writer and web developer based in Youngstown, who previously served on the board of Lit Youngstown and currently leads the Youngstown Writers' Guild. RW also happens to be one of Page Count's biggest fans. This episode is part of Page Count's new literary screening series where I invite my guests to discuss a film about either a writer or the writing life. RW, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for being here today.

RW Franklin (01:07):
Thank you for having me. I am very, very excited to be here. Like you said, I have been listening pretty much since the first episode. I think it was like episode three and then I had to go back and catch up 'cause I was so happy to find it.

Laura Maylene Walter (01:22):
I appreciate that so much. I've always appreciated your support and you know, listeners let this be a lesson that we here at page count are not immune to flattery and you know, so <laugh>, maybe you'll watch a movie with us and be on the podcast, just send more fan mail, uh, <laugh>. But no, but seriously, I will have some questions for you later about Lit Youngstown and literary community um, and about your own writing that you're working on as well. But for now, let's get down to business and tell us which film did you choose for us to watch and tell us why you chose it.

RW Franklin (01:57):
So when you proposed this to me, THE TENDER BAR was the first one that popped into my mind and I think it's for two reasons. One is there is a quote at the end of the movie that hit me really hard and made me want to read the book. And then also because the author of the book J. R. Moehringer choosing to write his name without Dots in the start of his life, <laugh>. So it has a little bit of like a personal meaning for me. I think that was what made me choose to write my name without dots like officially.

Laura Maylene Walter (02:32):
So the book was published, THE TENDER BAR in 2005 and I believe the film came out in 2021 or 2022. Did you encounter the film right after it came out? Tell us how and when you found it.

RW Franklin (02:45):
I think it was in 2022 that I discovered it and I was just like browsing through Amazon while doing laundry one day and it was in like their you right? Like this type of thing, you know? So I picked it just thinking, oh you know, it'll just be a movie I have in on the background. And then I ended up like sitting on my bed watching it instead of folding laundry.

Laura Maylene Walter (03:08):
There's so much I wanna ask about. So I call him a character even though it's based on the memoir by J. R. Moehringer, but the character of JR McGuire is what he is called in the film. So just to fill in listeners though about this film, if they have never watched it, and of course I'll link to it in the show notes, THE TENDER BAR came out in 2021 and it's directed by George Clooney. The screenplay was adapted by William Monahan and its stars Ben Affleck as Uncle Charlie with the older JR McGuire character played by Tye Sheridan and Lily Rabe plays the mother and it's a coming of age story about a young boy and a young man who wants to become a writer. And now I have to know which quote near the end inspired you to then read the memoir and dive more into it.

RW Franklin (03:56):
I think it actually might even be the very last thing he says, <laugh>. "When you set out to be a lawyer, you go to law school. You get a diploma for your effort, you pass the bar. In the text, it declares you officially a lawyer. That's how most jobs work, but you're a writer at the moment you say you are. Nobody gives you a diploma. You have to prove it, at least to yourself." That quote was like, man, I've read it before where people say you just have to tell yourself you're a writer. Like you just have to do it. And when I was watching this movie and seeing him make that decision because his mom his entire life had told him, you're gonna grow up to go to Harvard or Yale and you're going to become a lawyer, he had people telling him his whole life what he was going to become and he was trying to become that because he wanted to make his mom proud, he wanted to take care of her and he was on his path to doing that.

RW Franklin (04:56):
They don't show it in the movie, but in the book he actually was working at law firms. His older cousin had gotten him a couple of jobs at law firms she was working in and then he decided like, no, this is not what I wanna be in the movie. His college roommate asked him like, would your mom want you to be this or what would she really want you to be? And JR says she'd want me to be happy. And that was also in the book. And it's the truth, like a lot of times our parents, they'll tell us what they want us to be because they want us to be happy, not because they're necessarily like, oh this is exactly what I want you to be. They want us to be taken care of. And getting back to the whole writer thing, I just felt like, yeah, I just need to really do that. Just really take it to heart that I am a writer. It doesn't matter if I don't have an actual novel published yet, I am actively doing the things that make me a writer.

Laura Maylene Walter (05:53):
Yeah, absolutely. And I tell people this all the time. If you, you know, want to publish a novel or publish whatever, you can't get to that point without the years usually years and years, for some of us decades beforehand of putting in that work and declaring yourself to yourself that you're a writer and just doing it, you're not gonna get a payoff right away. It's usually a very long slow thing. So to get to that point, you're going to have to sort of be toiling in obscurity and that's just how it goes. And no, I had written down that quote too, you know how no one gives you a diploma? You have to prove it at least to yourself. Because I often hear from people, either people I might teach or people I, I don't teach, but who are very new to writing but very interested in it and they either want permission or like they have to check off a list of things before they can be considered a quote unquote real writer. And what makes you a writer is if you just sit down and write like that, that is what does it, like you actually just sit down and write. It doesn't matter if you think it's bad or good or whatever is just kind of keep sitting at the writing desk. So I, I appreciated that quote in film as well.

RW Franklin (07:04):
Yeah, it's an excellent quote. I feel like every writer, even if they don't think they're a writer, but they like the act of writing needs to take that quote to heart.

Laura Maylene Walter (07:14):
And you mentioned family and and what the mother would've wanted. So just for listeners who haven't seen the film, I will say that you know, one of the themes is JR's father who is an absent father, you could call him abusive based on some things we see in the film. He is a radio DJ and he's kind of known informally nicknamed The Voice because here's this young boy in the beginning of the film who doesn't have his father in his life, but he could be driving around in the car with his mother and he could hear his father's voice come on the radio, which is kind of a powerful thing. How was that handled in the memoir? I will just admit to listeners that I watched the film and I have not yet read the memoir. So what can you tell us about how that was portrayed in the memoir?

RW Franklin (08:03):
They definitely handled it very well in the, the movie where he was completely absent. You know, there was a scene in the the movie where everybody's in the kitchen and oh my goodness, there's so many people in that house, but everybody's in the kitchen. Aunts, cousins, grandma, grandpa. And they're listening to the music and dancing and everybody's having a good time and the song ends and this voice comes on the radio and the aunt just pushes the radio off of the shelf and it collapses on the ground. Nobody else moves, says anything, everything's just quiet for a little bit and then they go back to life, you know, and that's how they handled it in the book was either they shut it off or they, you know, real quickly just throw it on the ground like anything to get rid of that voice. And JR in secret would take the radio and he would just hide under his covers and turn the dial to try and find this voice that he just knew and would try and listen to it. And he didn't know how bad it was for his mom with his dad because he is a kid and she's protecting him. You know?

Laura Maylene Walter (09:11):
Yeah. And of course he'd want his father, a father in his life, and he's this mysterious voice who is playing music on the radio, kind of a public figure. Of course he would be drawn to that and want to hear his voice. Like, I think that's natural for anyone.

RW Franklin (09:25):
Right. And he's in a radio station close enough that I can pick him up because I even thought about that too, you know, how is it to know that your dad is in this radio station talking to people on the phone? People are calling in, they have his number but JR doesn't have his number. JR can't call him up and talk to him when he's on the radio and even having no pictures of him because this was, you know, a time when there's no social media or anything like that. His mom had cut him out of all the pictures. So he didn't even know what his dad looked like until he was I think like 10 or 11 when he did finally come and pick him up. And that night when he did that drive around the block in the movie, that was actually a like very traumatic night where his dad was playing a game of strip poker and tried to add him to the pot.

Laura Maylene Walter (10:18):
Oh my God.

RW Franklin (10:19):
Yeah. So I just can't even imagine what it was like for him as a kid to know that your dad's so close but still so far away.

Laura Maylene Walter (10:27):
Yeah, absolutely. And I should say, so this is set in the seventies and early to mid eighties. The film starts in his childhood but covers when he goes to school. I think he graduates in, is it '83 or '86 and then we get some of his post-college life a little bit as well. So it's the seventies and eighties is where we are, just to place you in a time, everyone, of what it was like back then. Speaking of family, though. So he has his mother who is very dedicated to him but and supportive and wants him to be happy and make something of himself, really wants him to go to either Harvard or Yale. Those are the two options. But of course she cares about him very much. But then he has Uncle Charlie and I think at the beginning of the film in voiceover JR basically says something like every kid should have an uncle like Uncle Charlie played by Ben Affleck. And I think I kind of agree 'cause the uncle is really a stabilizing father figure in his life. He runs a bar called The Dickens in the film and I know in real life it had a few different names but called the Dickens after Charles Dickens and JR goes there and his uncle Charlie gives him a lot of life advice and really shows up for him. So I'm curious how you saw the relationship between them both in the film and the memoir

RW Franklin (11:48):
In the film. It was definitely good to have that, like you said, he was very stabilizing. Somebody that JR could rely on to sort of fill a gap. You know, his mom can't be there all the time, she has to work, she has to provide for them. So for her to be able to have a brother who can kind of step in and help her out every now and then really I think was beneficial to both of them. But then in the book what was interesting is they had actually when JR was I think 13, 12 or 13, they picked up and moved to Arizona, just her and JR. She was following her sister and then within like a month of them moving to Arizona, her sister moved back to Manhasset and left her there. And so her and Jr were completely alone in Arizona all through his high school days.

RW Franklin (12:47):
But what she did is she would send him back to Manhasset every summer so that he could spend time with Uncle Charlie and get that sort of what she considered a man's influence since he didn't have his dad and she could work overtime and make more money so that she could provide for them and they could keep their house or apartment, she felt it was a failure to have to keep going back to her dad's house in Manhasset. So that was like her compensation, even though she would not get to see her son all summer, she was trying to avoid coming back to Manhasset. So I think Charlie taking up and caring for his nephew the way he did was like a standup thing. And throughout the memoir and throughout the movie you kind of get this feeling that the entire family is cold-ish. The movie I feel like they didn't do it as well in the book.

RW Franklin (13:42):
They are very cold to each other. The grandfather is abusive to the grandmother and they're not from a very loving family, but they do take care of each other. That's something that I kept thinking about over and over when I was reading the book. Even when they were being cold to each other and very like abrupt and even a little bit aggressive, they were still doing things that would take care of each other. Like they still got together for dinner, the entire family, they didn't have to do that. If they really hated each other, they could have gone their separate ways for dinner and stuff. It's an interesting dynamic in the movie actually. The mom even says about JR's grandpa that he may not be a good man but he takes care of his family.

Laura Maylene Walter (14:32):
It's interesting to hear you talk about the memoir and the Arizona part because I'm thinking of adaptation and how they had to translate this entire memoir into a film that's I think under two hours long. I forget the exact runtime and I can see why they did that, because taking the film to Arizona and back would just be too cumbersome. And the fact that JR did live with Charlie during those summers, I feel like that comes through in the film. Not that he lived there specifically, but it comes through that they were close and that Charlie stepped up and that he was a presence in this kid's life. And you could also see when the mother first arrives, she has to basically move back home with her dad in the beginning of the film and bring Charlie there. You could tell how reluctant she is to do that.

Laura Maylene Walter (15:17):
Like, she's not happy to do this. This feels like a failure to her to have to come back. So that's interesting in the memoir that was a little more drawn out that she even spent her summers working out in Arizona to avoid that fate of coming home again. Well so Charlie also plays a role in the film of talking with JR about being interested in books and you know, Charlie is the first one who says it. I wrote down this quote, so I believe JR is at the bar at this point and the bar has a lot of books like behind the bar in places where often there would just be liquor bottles. There's a bunch of books, which is a writer's dream by the way, but Oh

RW Franklin (15:53):
Yes. Yeah.

Laura Maylene Walter (15:53):
So JR asked about the books like can I read them or can people read them? And Charlie, he encourages that and then he says, "If you read enough books, you know what could happen. Maybe if you're lucky you could become a writer." Which I really liked that because there is such a connection between reading a lot and becoming a writer. The lucky part made me laugh just because, not seriously, but sometimes it feels like writers, we almost feel like we're cursed, that we <laugh>, we're choosing this really hard life. So the thought of being really lucky to be a writer, but of course we are. So Charlie has really, he really encouraged this reading with JR. Um, later he shows JR a whole closet full of books and is basically saying, go and read all of those. Like I don't even wanna talk to you about them or about anything until you finish reading all of the books in this closet. So I was curious for you either how you took if any of those scenes stood out to you, but also in your own younger days, was there someone in particular who encouraged you to read or who maybe introduced you to a certain book that was influential? I'm curious about your sort of origin story as a reader and writer.

RW Franklin (17:03):
I think it would have to be my mom. So we were homeschooled when I was really young and she always made sure that we took, I'm pretty sure it was weekly trips to the library. And I found out that the library I went to is actually part of the Ohio um, Literary Trail. And I found out through Page Count.

Laura Maylene Walter (17:23):
Oh, wonderful. Wait, which library is it?

RW Franklin (17:25):
It's the Bristolville Library.

Laura Maylene Walter (17:27):
Okay. Amazing.

RW Franklin (17:29):
So another reason to listen to Page Count <laugh> is to learn all kinds of things. But she would take us on I think weekly trips to library and I just remember always getting tons of books and I started from a very young age just writing like little stories. And I even remember making a note in the book when I was reading it 'cause he said something about, you know, writing the newspapers when he is young I feel like a lot of writers get their start doing like those little stories here and there for their family and just like these random little things that when you're a kid you're like, oh this is kind of cool, but maybe you don't think about it as that's what spurs this kind of like fire inside. But now that I'm older, I'm finding out that my mom has been writing for a long time. Not, not necessarily stories, but she's been journaling for a long time, which to me is just nonfiction. She's writing nonfiction for her entire life. So maybe it's a family tree.

Laura Maylene Walter (18:31):
Yeah, I noted that scene in the film when JR is a child and he has created a newspaper called THE FAMILY GAZETTE and he, you know, laid it out and wrote it and like you were saying, that's a very common experience for writers. I definitely did that. I had little newsletters I made for the clubs I was in with my friends. When I was 11, I had like a, it wasn't very successful, but it was like a budding business venture where I put together this whole newsletter and I put in ads and magazines for pen pals where kids could get pen pals and I would like get subscribers from all over the country and even some international people. It was so much fun, and I just love doing it. And when I look back on that now and I see my professional life, I've worked in various jobs where I've ended up doing either a form of a newsletter or a magazine, you know, for the workplace. And it's just so funny how there's a throughline there. So when I saw on the film when he had THE FAMILY GAZETTE as a child, I was like, oh yeah, we, we recognize you, JR. You're one of us for sure.

RW Franklin (19:32):
Yeah, definitely.

Laura Maylene Walter (19:33):
And there's a quote surrounding that that I'm curious what you thought of. So JR shows off his FAMILY GAZETTE and his family reads it and Uncle Charlie reads it and he says this, he says, "I know a lot of guys that think they're writers, and you'll find in life that most of them are not. Here's the thing, you gotta have it. I don't know what it is, but if you don't have it immediately, you never get it. And I can say, you got it. I didn't say you were good, but you could be." What do you think about that quote? I'm curious.

RW Franklin (20:10):
I connect with it in a sense of like, I feel like when I pick up a book and I'm reading this author for the first time, I can tell when I'm like, oh okay yeah, this author knows what they're doing. And then if I pick up a book by a different author and I'm reading through it, I can usually tell like either they didn't go through the right editing process or maybe they weren't listening to their peers or something like that. So when he says you got to have it right, what is the it that he's talking about and what is that When you open up a book and you're like, yeah this author has it, what is that it? You know, he said he doesn't know what it's, and I think he's right. Huh? So if I try to break this down now, 'cause I'm in the literary world, I shouldn't be able to answer this, shouldn't I? I've been in here long enough. Let's think about this. I think that community is a huge thing to having it. You have to know how to find your community. I think that the it factor is not just about being able to put good words on a page. Because like JR found, actually, I don't know if they mentioned it in the movie very much, his use of big words, did they bring that up in the movie at all?

Laura Maylene Walter (21:31):
Not so much. But he was very good at the word puzzles that Charlie had him do. It seemed clear to me he had a good vocabulary, but I don't think that was made into a big point.

RW Franklin (21:41):
Yeah. So he had this thing when he was working on his essay for Yale, he would give it to his mom to read proofread and she kept telling him no and he was getting frustrated. So he'd take it back and put bigger words in it and be more extravagant with his writing and she would still come back and say, no, this is not right. And then he was like, fine, I'm gonna make her the dumbest, most lame paper ever. Like this essay is just gonna be stupid. And he brought it back to her and she thought it was the best thing ever.

Laura Maylene Walter (22:13):
That's funny.

RW Franklin (22:14):
And then when he was working for the New York Times, he found out that sometimes it's not always best to use the biggest words. So I think that part of having the it factor is knowing those types of differences too. Being able to learn those differences, being teachable and being able to accept criticism. Having a hard shell because you get rejected a lot. I don't know, there's, there's a lot. I don't know, I don't know <laugh>.

Laura Maylene Walter (22:46):
The reason I pulled out that quote is because it's complicated and I'm of two minds concerning that quote. Actually on one hand I agree with it in a lot of ways. I think it's pretty accurate. I especially love when he says, I didn't say you were good, but you could be like he sees this flash of potential and if you want to say "it" is talent, and I think it's more complicated than that. But if you want to think of it as talent, you could be the most talented young writer in the world. But without that work and the time and the effort into developing yourself as a writer, you won't be good. Nothing will really come of it. So I do agree with that. Where I maybe worry is when he says, "If you don't have it immediately, you never get it."

Laura Maylene Walter (23:28):
And I think that can be a little dangerous 'cause it kind of implies some people are inherently talented enough or genius enough as writers that they have a future in it and other people just flat out aren't. And I wouldn't agree with that. And maybe that goes into the whole argument of can writing be taught, which of course I think it can be taught. I don't think you can teach what he's talking about, innate artistic genius or whatever flavor sets you apart from anyone else. Maybe that can't be taught. But writing can be taught, you can get better. You can find your niche as a writer. I mean I can't even say how many writers I've known who tried to be one kind of writer, say a novelist or whatever, and discovered what they were really good at with something else like writing nonfiction or poetry, et cetera.

Laura Maylene Walter (24:14):
So yeah, so no I, I like that quote even if I don't fully agree with it. And I thought it was really interesting to think about this concept of having "it" as a writer. But also I think that scene, what it shows is when Charlie says this, it's like he is issuing a verdict on JR's life when he says, "I think you have it," JR's mother kind of like screams in excitement and says, "I knew it, I knew it." Like they're relieved, they're so relieved that Uncle Charlie thinks JR has it. And it made me think of how we need that encouragement as young writers, young meaning literally young or just newer on the writing path. We need that kind of encouragement. We kind of need someone to see our work and say this has value. I hope you continue doing it. We need that encouragement. But also there's a lot of risk waiting on one person that you think of as the arbiter of whatever. You know, your Uncle Charlie, your MFA professor, your editor, like this one person can tell you whether or not you have it. And that's what I think I disagree with.

RW Franklin (25:15):
Yeah, I definitely don't feel like you should rely on one person's opinion of something because we've seen it. I have a small critique group, there's four of us in it. And even in that small critique group, we'll have one person say, well you know, I saw this line and I'm not sure that it really fits with what your character would do. And then another person will be like, well actually because of this, this and this, I think it would be what your character will do. So even in a group of four people you can have varying opinions. So you have to kind of also go with your gut, go with what your heart is telling you. And if you really are that passionate about writing, I don't feel like you should let anybody tell you not to write, continue to practice, continue to hone your craft. If that's what brings you joy, do it <laugh>.

Laura Maylene Walter (26:10):
Yeah, absolutely. So you talked about your mother instilling the love of books. I feel a lot of this movie is about the origin story of a writer. And so I'm curious when I think of that scene when Charlie encourages JR by saying, I think you have it like you can do this. Which is a lovely sentiment. So I'm curious, did you have one person who maybe encouraged your writing in the past or someone who maybe flipped that switch for you to think, oh I could be a writer or I want to be a writer. Do you have any kind of story like that in your own history?

RW Franklin (26:46):
I didn't really think seriously about writing until probably like 2017. Growing up I had always considered writing like, oh that's just something you do as a hobby. I come from a very practical family where you get a practical job. Arts are just kind of like a side hustle or like a little hobby that if you make money, okay, but it's not a career type employment. And then in 2017 I started working on a little novel that I still think about, but you know, we move on from things, whatever, it's in a drawer, I'll come back to it. But I had mentioned it to my husband, he found out how much I really love writing and he was like, well why aren't you going to like conferences or workshops or something? And I was like, well I don't know, I haven't really given it much thought.

RW Franklin (27:43):
And he's just like, do it, just go, just do the thing. He really just pushes me to, if there's a conference coming up or something and I'm like, oh I don't know, it costs this much. I'm real stingy. I'm cheap. So I'll be like, I don't know, it's like a hundred bucks. He'll be like, just go, just spend the hundred bucks. It's not that big of a deal <laugh>. So, um, it's really nice to have his support and yeah, constantly having somebody at home telling me, no, go do it. And he'll read my writing anytime I ask him to. And he actually gives me good feedback, not just like, oh, I like it, it's cool. <laugh>, he gives me like editor type feedback. I go to him for like semicolons, commas, grammar, 'cause I'm, I'm terrible at grammar but he is on point with it.

Laura Maylene Walter (28:33):
It's so fantastic to have a supportive partner or spouse or family member. I'm kind of the same way and I <laugh> thinking about my husband one time. I hope you won't mind I tell this story, but um, a number of years ago I got into a residency and I did not expect to get into this residency because it was fancy and I just didn't expect it would happen. And so when I got in, the reality came down when you go to a writing residency, you have to leave your life behind. You have to find a way to get time off work, you have to do all this stuff. And I actually hesitated and thought, can I even do this? Like is this too much to try to get away from my life for these weeks? I had just gotten acceptance and I was saying this out loud and he just said to me, are you seriously saying you might not go?

Laura Maylene Walter (29:19):
He was like, if you don't go, why don't you just get a gravestone for all your hopes and dreams <laugh> and put it in the graveyard. And I, I do wanna say that is his sense of humor. I thought it was hilarious. I'm realizing as I say it out loud on a podcast, it might sound really harsh, but it made me laugh And it also was immediately all, any thoughts of not going were completely erased. And I worked it out and it was great and it was one of the best experiences. So anyway, this is what we need writers share this with your partners who need to be more either accepting and supportive or harsh and threaten to murder your dreams and put them in the graveyard if you don't do what you're trying to do.

RW Franklin (29:59):
I think he's right. You know, like why would you skip an opportunity that can be amazing,

Laura Maylene Walter (30:05):
Right? For practicality,

RW Franklin (30:07):
Right? He sounds wonderful.

Laura Maylene Walter (30:09):
<laugh>. And I will say I think I would've gone no matter what it was just in that moment of like uncertainty. And it's easy as writers to doubt ourselves or to talk ourselves out of things. Sometimes we have to keep believing in ourselves. So speaking of family and practicality, I just thought this was funny when JR is growing up, I think at this point maybe he's finishing college or has finished, I'm not sure. And his mom says to him, you have to have a job. And he says, I will have a job writing a novel. Um, which really made me laugh because it's not like a job where you have a salary where you're being supported. She finishes this up by saying publishing is going more toward memoir, which is a running gag throughout the film. He keeps saying he wants to write a novel, but everyone keeps saying the industry is going toward memoir. So I'm curious if that was in the book as well. 'cause I wasn't sure in the eighties was that even true? I doubt it but I don't know.

RW Franklin (31:07):
I don't know. It must have been because it really was, it was throughout the book too where yeah they kept telling him to do a memoir and he was like, no, I'm writing fiction. He would say that he wants to write something along the lines of like the men at the bar, but he wanted to make a fiction version of it and it just wasn't coming to him. He just couldn't do it. And they kept telling him, oh just do a memoir. And he's like, no he doesn't want to. And <laugh>, it's so funny though how that works out because I think we can sometimes get these ideas in our head where we're like, no, I wanna do this one. I wanna focus on this idea and we'll we'll try so hard to get at this one idea. Even if we have another one kind of like nagging at the back of our minds, that might be a little bit better. Maybe I'm alone in that, but I just feel like that's where he was at. He was so stubborn and determined to do this novel, but he is like, dude, just do a memoir, it'll work.

Laura Maylene Walter (32:07):
Yeah. And I guess here I should say, for people who are curious, so the author of the memoir J. R. Moehringer, he was a journalist, is a journalist, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. He won Pulitzers for a few features. So he was an active journalist and then he published this memoir in 2005 and it was a pretty big hit. I didn't know this until I started looking into this for this podcast, but he also was ghostwriting and he actually, he wrote SPARE, the Prince Harry memoir. Did you know this? I had no idea.

RW Franklin (32:41):
What? No, I had no idea.

Laura Maylene Walter (32:43):
Yeah, he wrote Spare <laugh>. That book was, as we all know, enormous, right? So no, he, he wrote SPARE I think because it was this memoir, THE TENDER BAR that it got him attention and that's how people like Andre Agassi were coming to him and and wanting him to write their memoirs and ghostwrite for them. And so he became known. So he already had some experience. And then I don't know how the Prince Harry thing came about, I didn't dive too deeply, but as you can imagine with the British press and tabloids, he was being hounded by them because he was known. It was like leaked that he was the ghostwriter. So I just found that really interesting.

RW Franklin (33:23):
Wow. Yeah.

Laura Maylene Walter (33:24):
But he did write a novel, which I haven't read, but J. R. Moehringer wrote a novel called SUTTON, I believe in like around 2012. So he did publish a novel after this memoir. So in case anyone's curious if that young J.R. dream ever came true, it did.

RW Franklin (33:41):
I'm almost nervous. 'cause sometimes I feel like, you know, when people switch from their normal genre, you get let down a little bit because they're, they're so good. The memoir is so good that I'm like, if I switch over to read his novel, have I put too much of a an expectation on it? Right, right. To match. But who knows, who knows. He does have some really good turns of phrase and stuff.

Laura Maylene Walter (34:12):
I do wanna move on to ask you some other questions but before I do, I know there's a lot more we could probably talk about with the film, but is there anything that you wanted to bring up that I didn't ask about the film or the memoir? Anything you wanted to kind of share with our listeners?

RW Franklin (34:27):
There were just a couple of phrases, like really short phrases that I loved in the book.

Laura Maylene Walter (34:32):
Do you wanna share some of them? I'd love to hear them.

RW Franklin (34:34):
Yeah, so JR worked, when he was in Arizona, he worked in a bookstore for a while and one of the men who worked there told him you must do everything that frightens you, JR, everything. And I feel like that can be very important to writers. There is actually another somebody who has said the phrase, write what scares you. Sometimes you have to get over your fears in writing in order to move forward, you know? But then the other one is: "Like nothing else, words organized my world." When I read that I was just like, oh my goodness. Yes. That's why I love words so much. They just make the world make sense for me.

Laura Maylene Walter (35:13):
Agreed. Well thank you for sharing those. So I have never asked you what RW stands for and after watching this film, I almost feel hesitant to ask because it's sort of a running gag throughout the film of everyone always asking him, what does JR stand for <laugh>? And it becomes kind of a big theme of the movie of identity and your history and your family. But would you like to tell us about your name and either what it stands for or why it mattered to you to spell it without the periods?

RW Franklin (35:43):
So I do get asked this a lot and I think it is because people just automatically assume, well if you've got initials it's got to stand for something, right? So it's a pen name, and it has almost nothing to do with my real name because the R, it has nothing to do with my real name. The R stands for red, so I have red hair. And before my husband knew my actual real name, him and his friends used to call me Red. And so that's kind of just like a little tribute to him and like all of the support he gives me. But then the W does actually have something to do with my name, my maiden name is Weaver. So the W is kind of like a tribute to all of the things that have brought me up to the point of choosing to write and where I am in my life. And then the Franklin is just, that's my last name.

Laura Maylene Walter (36:35):
I know we have listeners who are always curious about pen names, the choice to use them, when to use them, when not to use them. So what can you tell us, is this a name that you use exclusively for everything writing related in your life? Um, what can you tell us about your choice to go with the name RW?

RW Franklin (36:55):
When I first started writing, I was a little bit nervous about like, oh what if my friends and family find out I'm not a great writer anyway and then they'll just make fun of me. It was kind of like a shield almost to protect myself before I got my confidence. So that's why I came up with a pen name. But now it's more of just like a, actually I'm not sure how, how I would describe it. I feel like it's given me a little bit more power now it feels like yeah this makes sense for me to have this. I'm trying not to go into too much detail because I personally have a thing around identity. So I kind of, I connect with JR on the whole like identity and name thing. So when I'm at events and I hear people say RW, it kind of gets me into my writer mode.

RW Franklin (37:54):
So it almost is like a switch in my brain now where when I sit down on my computer and pull up my RW Franklin folder or when I go to events, it almost like triggers something in my brain and is like, okay now we're writer. And it's actually helped me to kind of separate when I get payments for stuff. 'cause now I have it registered as a fictitious name so I was able to open a bank account in it. So anytime I get, which I mean it's been one time that I've gotten a check in that name. You

Laura Maylene Walter (38:27):
Don't have to tell writers that we all know <laugh>.

RW Franklin (38:30):
I was gonna say don't think that I'm out here like making oodles crash with my writing. Okay. Right, right. But it does help to kind of separate some things and keep things separate. I think it came from a place of fear at first of being found out that I have this like little secret or whatever that I'm writing. But now it's more of like a no I'm writing, this is my pen name. I am a writer.

Laura Maylene Walter (38:56):
Hmm. Yeah, and the connections with JR and and his identity and everyone always asking him what the JR stands for. And of course his relationship with his father I found really interesting. I'm curious about your writing, whatever you'd like to share with us. What would you like to tell us about what you're working on? You mentioned your drawer novel, which uh, many of those as well and probably a lot of our listeners do too. But what would you like to share about the writing you're working on these days?

RW Franklin (39:20):
Right now I'm working on a fantasy trilogy, which may only be a duology, who knows I'm reorganizing it. But I'm on draft probably number three now. And this is the first novel I've ever outlined. I've written two other smaller novels, but this is the first one that I'm actually building an entire world, new creatures and a whole society. And I have to think about the economics of the place and I have to think about the geography and if they go over to a different kingdom, what is the economy of that kingdom compared to my kingdom? And oh my goodness, it is such a different experience than just writing a novel based in our world. So it's been a very different experience, but it's, it's a lot of fun. I really am having so much fun doing it compared to, you know, just a, a novel that's based in our world where I don't have to create all these extra things.

Laura Maylene Walter (40:29):
Yeah, I definitely sympathize with that because I mean with BODY OF STARS, that was my first booklength project that was speculative or not based in our actual world. And man, I had a learning curve. As you say, anything you do, any choice, you have to really think through how it would work in that world. To the point where I recently wrote something that is more firmly rooted in our real actual world. And I'm not saying it's easy because nothing is easy, nothing is easy in the writing life and writing any novel is so, so hard. So I'm not saying it was easy, but it was different. The challenges were of a different level or scale than also in addition having to worry about all the world building. So I'm glad you're having fun with it. That is always the most important thing, I think, because if we're not having fun when we're writing it, who is going to have fun reading it? So I love to hear that. And I also wanna hear about, you know, your work within the local literary community. So you had previously served on the board of Lit Youngstown. I always think of you as one of the go-to people who just knows what's happening with Lit Youngstown and, and you've run the Writers' Guild now. So I'm curious about your journey to finding this community and what it means to you and, and what you think other writers can maybe take away from your own experiences.

RW Franklin (41:49):
Well, so I started, I think I found Lit Youngstown in late 2017 or early 2018 through their Writer's Circle, which they just sunsetted last year or sunset, um, <laugh>. But they are just a really great organization here in Youngstown. Most of their events are either free or a super low cost. And the writing community, the members of the community from there have all just been incredible. When I joined the Writer's Circle, one of the reasons that I kept going back is because initially sat down and felt so nervous as we were doing introductions and we're going around the room and this person says they have an MFA, this person says they're an English teacher, this one says that she was a like psychiatrist and did some therapeutic writing classes and stuff. And I'm sitting there going, oh my goodness, they're gonna tear my piece to shreds.

RW Franklin (42:54):
I'm just gonna be the worst writer here. They critiqued my work with such gentleness and care. They did not tell me that it was perfect. Of course they told me where areas could be improved, but they did it with such kindness that I was like, okay, I don't have to have all these credentials to be welcome here. And that was one of the things that really drew me in about Lit Youngstown, now I just hang out with them all the time. And I'm on the fall Literary Festival planning committee. I am a tech manager for that. Yes,

Laura Maylene Walter (43:32):
You actually helped the Ross Gay and Alison Stine podcast interview, which I will link here. You helped with that 'cause that was held at Lit Youngstown, so thank you for that.

RW Franklin (43:42):
Oh, of course. That was fun. I was so excited that you guys came and recorded that because I also, I couldn't stay for that so I was able to go back and listen to it later. And then I had started a writing group at our local YMCA, but it just wasn't working out real well. And I talked to Karen, the director of Lit Youngstown about moving it to Youngstown and she was very supportive. So that's when the Youngstown Writers' Guild started up. So yeah, now we meet on the third Saturday of every month at POP! Art Books Culture in Boardman. And we just have a great time. We hang out from 10 to two, come whenever you want. There's no agenda because we just want writers to be able to come and hang out with each other and know that they're not alone. Know that we're all going through the same struggles and if you come and get some writing done while you're there, cool. But if you'd rather get knitting done, cool. If you'd rather just sit and stare at a wall, fine. We'll hang out with you while you do it. We just wanna hang out.

Laura Maylene Walter (44:53):
I was just gonna say, I love to sit and stare at a wall and that is sometimes writing, so I love that you provide a space <laugh>. If people wanna do that, they can go for it.

RW Franklin (45:02):
Yeah, and I do co-host it with one of my writing friends here, Katya, cause she, I had to take some time off last year and she stepped in for me. And I just feel like if you are serious about writing, you have to find your writing community because it makes such a huge difference to have people who will not only keep you accountable because they'll ask you, "How's your writing going?" but they'll also encourage you. One thing our group is really good about is they'll ask, like, "How's your writing going?" If you say, "You know, it's alright, but I only got fifty words written." They'll still celebrate that with you, and make you feel good about only writing fifty words. And I feel like that's super important.

Laura Maylene Walter (45:46):
Yeah, we all really need that. And now I'm thinking back to THE TENDER BAR and I don't know if in the memoir he found more of a community, the film sort of ends when he's going off to become a writer in some respects. Um, and of course he had Charlie, I think Charlie was his community at the time, and I guess his friends from Yale who were extremely wise for their years. <laugh> I would say in the film <laugh>. Um, so I don't know if there was more community in the memoir side, but I agree with you. I think it's so imperative for writers to find that community, even if it's not always hardcore critiquing. Like just having someone to talk through the challenges or to share when you get a particularly rough rejection that we all have to deal with. And to celebrate your successes too.

Laura Maylene Walter (46:30):
It's, it's so important. And I've gotten to know you just through the literary community, you listen to Page count, that is part of being in a literary community is listening to podcasts. I can link to some other thinking locally of Index for Continuance, which is out of CSU Poetry Center and going to events like you've come to the Inkubator and yeah, so I, it's so important. So I would just encourage anyone listening to this, whether you're in Northeast Ohio or Ohio or anywhere, is finding your own community, whatever that looks like. And sometimes if you can't find it, try to start your own, you know, start a writing group at at a library or the YMCA like you did and just see where it goes.

RW Franklin (47:11):
Yeah. And even like Literary Cleveland has a couple of things online, like Lit Youngstown doesn't really provide any online workshops or anything, but I know Literary Cleveland, I'm not an early bird so I wasn't able to stick around for it. But they have the early morning group that meets every morning and it's online. So you can build a community that way too. They don't talk or anything, they just get online and write. It's like an accountability thing. And sometimes even that can help make you feel like you're part of something more than just sitting in your room by yourself. Yeah, in a whole almost.

Laura Maylene Walter (47:45):
Yeah. I'll see if I can link to that because I assume it's still ongoing. I've had multiple students through Lit Cleveland who make use of that and make very good use of it just to know, well if I log on at this time, other people will be logged on too. It's this extra little push to get you to do some work. Yeah. Well this has been so fun and I don't wanna take up more of your time, but I found this quote with J. R. Moehringer. He is actually talking about the feature story that won him his first Pulitzer. And I can try to link to all of this. He credits that feature and of course the Pulitzer that he won from it as being kind of the start of his whole actual writing career, like it really kicked things off. He said, "One story will change your life better hope it's a good one because it will define you."

Laura Maylene Walter (48:34):
And then he says about when he stumbled on that story that he ended up writing about that won him the Pulitzer, that kind of made his whole career take off. He said, it's like love, you don't have to ask yourself, you just know I knew this was my story. I think that can apply to almost any kind of writing you do, whether it's a novel you're working on. Like if you know it in your gut that this is my story, this is the one I'm going to be pursuing. So I think that could be a good note for us to end on. RW, thank you so much for joining us and for sharing your thoughts on THE TENDER BAR and about Lit Youngstown and writing community. It's always wonderful to chat with you. So thank you so much.

RW Franklin (49:15):
Thank you, Laura. I'm so excited I was able to be on for this and to talk about THE TENDER BAR. It was great.

Laura Maylene Walter (49:26):
Page Count is presented by the Ohio Center for the Book at Cleveland Public Library. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and leave a review for Page Count wherever you get your podcast. Learn more online or find a transcript of this episode at ohiocenterforthebook.org, follow us on Instagram @ohiocenterforthebook or find us on Facebook. If you'd like to get in touch, email ohiocenterforthebook@cpl.org and put 'podcast' in the subject line. Thanks for listening, and we'll be back in two weeks for another chapter of Page Count.