The Ohio Literary Trail

Laura Maylene Walter (00:02):
Welcome to Page Count presented by the Ohio Center for the Book at Cleveland Public Library. This podcast celebrates authors, illustrators, librarians, booksellers, literary advocates, and readers in and from the state of Ohio.

Laura Maylene Walter (00:21):
I'm your host, Laura Maylene Walter, the Ohio Center for the Book Fellow and author of the novel BODY OF STARS. In today's episode, we're speaking with David Weaver and Betty Weibel, who will help us explore Ohio's rich literary heritage from Nancy Drew to Toni Morrison and beyond. David Weaver is the executive director of the Ohioana Library Association, a past executive director of the Malabar Farm Foundation, and author of Black Diva of the Thirties: The life of Ruby Elzy. Betty Weibel is a journalist, public relations professional an Ohioana board member and the author of, most recently, The Ohio Literary Trail: A Guide. Betty and David, thank you so much for being here today.

Betty Weibel (01:02):
Thank you, Laura.

David Weaver (01:03):
Glad to be here, Laura.

Laura Maylene Walter (01:04):
Well, I usually start asking my guests about their connection to Ohio, but I think it's fairly evident in this case. So David, I thought maybe we could begin by you giving us an overview of the Ohioana Library Association, and also share a bit about the history and the evolution of the Ohio literary trial.

David Weaver (01:22):
Certainly, glad to do that, Laura, glad to be here and thank you so much. And the Ohio center for the book for doing this, the Ohioana Library was founded in 1929 by Ohio first lady, Martha Kinney Cooper, who was an avid reader. And when she moved into the governor's mansion in 1929, thought there should be a collection of books by Ohio authors or about Ohio subjects in their library. And from that simple idea, the Ohioana Library was born. The library has grown over the years. We now have more than 80,000 items in our collection, books, sheet music, biographical files, paper scrapbooks, et cetera, but we've also added other programs. We added the Ohio Awards in 1942, the Ohioana Quarterly in 1958, the Walter Rumsey Marvin grant, which you won, that we added in 1982. And most recently the Ohioana Book Festival in 2007 and the Ohio literary trail in 2020.

David Weaver (02:26):
So our mission is to collect, preserve and celebrate Ohio literature. And we'd like to say that our job is to promote and celebrate Ohio books and authors. And we have done that. And what actually led to the literary trail was we in 1957 produced the very first Ohio literary map. And it showed places around the state where famous authors had been born. And so we started updating that every 10 years or so, the most recent one was done in 2015. And of course, since then digitization has come up. And one of the things about a printed literary map is that it takes a while to produce an update. Whereas with a digital map, you can update much more frequently. And we decided at the behest of our good friend, Betty, Weibel here, to actually not only make a map, but also sites that people could actually physically visit in the state of Ohio with literary connections. And so from a combination of those several ideas, the Ohio literary trail was born in 2020.

Laura Maylene Walter (03:35):
Hearing all of what Ohioana does all at once is really impressive. And I think all writers and readers in Ohio are really lucky to have Ohioana. So thank you for all the work that you do. And David, you wrote the forward to the book where you included this quote, the world is a book and those who do not travel, read only a page, which I think is just great. So you gave us a bit about the history, but before we move on and ask Betty some questions about the book, is there anything else you could tell us about how the book itself came to be and, and maybe how the book and the web version, the digital version of the trail, how they might interact with each other or complement each other?

David Weaver (04:17):
Well, certainly, I mean, when Betty came to us with the idea in January of 2020 of creating the Ohio literary trail, it was pre pandemic. So for six months, Betty and a member of our staff, Morgan Peters worked together to put together the trail, the pandemic hit, we thought, well, what do we wanna go forward? And we actually did. And so it was actually introduced in the summer in issue of the Ohioan Quarterly in the summer of 2020, the response was immediate. We got great coverage from around the state. So it seemed like even though people were shut in due to the pandemic, there was this pent up desire to think about traveling and places to go. And especially places right here in your own backyard, so to speak. And we got such great coverage from newspapers and magazines, AAA Ohio did a special feature in their magazine for all 450,000 of their Ohio members.

David Weaver (05:11):
So, so it actually seemed like a book was the natural extension of this because I know I like when I'm traveling to have a book in, in hand with me that tells me more giving me more background. So it just seemed like a natural evolution. Once we saw what a great response there was to the literary trail. And of course, since Betty had been the person behind the whole thing, it just seemed natural with her and her experiences as an author to take that project on. And we're grateful she did

Laura Maylene Walter (05:42):
Betty. I am really curious about your actual process for creating the book. As David said, you were working on it in 2020 when a lot of the sites that are on the trail were actually closed because of the pandemic. So can you tell us about how you worked on the project and some of the challenges that came up along the way?

Betty Weibel (06:02):
You know, it's interesting because the book is really an afterthought to the trail itself. And as David mentioned, the original map is your old fashioned fold-out, like an old fashioned roadmap. And that's how the convers talked about digitizing. That original map had a dozen sites on them that people could visit. It started with a conversation with David. I was a new board member of Ohioana, and one of the lines in their promotional materials said Ohio has long been one of America's great literary centers. I said to David in a private conversation, I said, okay, with all due respect, is that line really overblown: America's literary centers? I said, David, come on, we're talking New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Ohio. Does that really count as a literary center for America? He started explaining to me as David does why it was. So I did a little bit more thinking.

Betty Weibel (07:03):
And the thing that really sparked it was from a personal level when I started researching all of those literary figures who had not only been from Ohio, but had influenced others in the literary war and how we could make that claim. And I felt that there was a need for a map that would illustrate just how deep Ohio's heritage is. So the idea for the map came first and putting it together and all the research that went with it, and it was a labor of love. It started really the love of my life as a child was the Nancy Drew series of books. And I learned that Mildred Benson, who was the original Carolyn Keene, was from Ohio. And it just blew my mind. David knows he got me all excited with that one. That's what got me researching. Well, I wonder who else is from Ohio that I didn't know about, and I'm not literary historian by any means, but I have worked with Ohio History Connection through the Ohio bicentennial and Ohio travel and tourism.

Betty Weibel (08:08):
So this idea of the map and the research that went into the map is because of my PR background and wanting to illustrate and show people, not just say we're a literary center, but show them why the research went into it. The final map at the end of the first digital trail had about 70 sites from that original dozen. And since then we've added another number of sites to keep expanding it. So it started as a digital map. We put it online at the Ohioana Library Association website where we can update it and link to all of the sites. And as you asked me about the process, it was pandemic. So I had to call everyone and email many were closed, which hurt them terribly financially. So I did a lot of research and expansion to that number and my knowledge of the Ohio history markers, the literary trail markers that had been dedicated during the Ohio bicentennial helped a lot in putting that together. So all of that research when we were done, we launched the trail map. It was an obvious, here's all this information. Let's put it into a book. So it really wrote itself. I have to say, after having done that initial research,

Laura Maylene Walter (09:25):
Always a dream when any book writes itself, right? But no, all the work that you put into it, it will really pay off for everyone in Ohio who cares about books and literature and the many authors who are from our state. So let's get into some of those sites. The book itself has I believe about 70 locations and of course the digital map as well. And while we don't have time to cover all of those right now in this podcast, I thought we could just do a quick rapid fire kind of tour. The Ohio literary trail is broken down five geographic regions. And so Betty I'd love it if you could highlight one of these literary landmarks in each region. So let's get started with Northwest Ohio.

Betty Weibel (10:05):
I have to go back to the big one. I just mentioned to you the site at the Toledo Public Library...some of our sites are markers, some are museums, historic homes. This is an example of a library for tourists. It's an amazing exhibit of the Nancy Drew collection, the largest collection that exists of all Nancy Drew paraphernalia. And you walk into this library section and it looks like you're walking into a Nancy Drew novel with the paneled walls, the fireplace, you can sit there and read it's an exquisite collection in the children's section. So that's gotta be my top choice in Northwest Ohio honoring not only the collection of the independent woman, youth and sleuth, but the author, Mildred Wirt Benson, who was a journalist in Toledo and wrote the very first of the Nancy Drew novels and the 20 some that followed.

Laura Maylene Walter (11:01):
I love that. That's such a fascinating history. It makes me want to revisit some Nancy Drew books because it's been many years since I was a child. My mother had some Nancy Drew books that she gave to me to read. And it's a special thing I think. So I will be checking that out. Okay. Let's move on to Southwest Ohio.

Betty Weibel (11:20):
I think in Southwest Ohio, there's so many wonderful sites, but I have to bring up to you not only Harriet Beecher Stowe House, but Paul Lawrence Dunbar's home and museum because that's a special year in 2022, where there's a 150th anniversary happening. And Paul Lawrence Dunbar, an incredible poet who influenced so many others, including Maya Angelo in her day. So I think his home is an incredible tribute to him where he lived and died and actually bought the home for his mother. And it's part of the National Park Service and also part of the Wright Memorial monuments in the nearby area. And so many of these sites are not only great sites, but the communities around them are great influencers and worth visiting as well.

Laura Maylene Walter (12:11):
Let's move now to central Ohio, which I know has a lot, but I'm hoping you can pick one for us.

Betty Weibel (12:16):
There are a lot in central Ohio and David and I have to agree with our love of Thurber House in Columbus, the wonderful humorist James Thurbers home and the garden across. And I'm giving you a quick synopsis. I think that's what you're looking for. There's so much more to say about it, but in our nickel tour, the home is beautiful. The gardens, it has the wonderful sculptures of dogs that he so loved, and it continues to be a great influencer with the Thurber award for humorists and great tours and programs that that organization continues to offer.

Laura Maylene Walter (12:54):
Now, what about Southeast Ohio? Where can book lovers and readers go there on the trail?

Betty Weibel (12:59):
You know, Southeast Ohio has a hidden gem. So many people don't realize that Zane Pearl Grey was born in Zanesville actually, it's a 150th anniversary of his birth as well. And Zane Grey is the father of the western novel. And there's a wonderful museum. If you look on trip advisor, they give it great, great reviews. It's also in conjunction with the National Railroad Museum and it's near John Glenn's home. So there's a lot to visit in that part of the state, the marker and the museum that paid tribute to Zane Grey are a wonderful site to visit. They have his original study is set up there. You can also see a Conestoga wagon for the National Road. And it really puts the two together and learning his wonderful history of writing 60-plus novels that were so romanticized and so wonderfully illustrating the Western life. They became the modern Western movies that gave birth to so many others today.

Laura Maylene Walter (14:02):
And finally we have the region I'm based in: Northeast Ohio. And I know we also have a lot here, but what is one site you'd like to highlight in Northeast Ohio?

Betty Weibel (14:13):
Again, so many good spots, but for a longer visit David and I would both recommend you take a trip to Richland County near Mansfield and see Malabar Farm, the home of author Louis Bromfield, who there's so many wonderful books out recently about his life and his influence in conservation, but is also some rich stories and David having worked at Malabar Foundation has a number of great stories of the celebrities that visited there from Lauren Bacall and Humphrey Bogart's wedding at the farm to celebrities who visited like James Cagney and Olivia de Havilland and did farm chores when they were visiting. So there's a rich heritage. It's beautiful. So many things to see, even during the pandemic, it's run by the Ohio state park system. So there's great outdoor activities, as well as touring the big house.

Laura Maylene Walter (15:06):
Well, the Ohio literary trail includes some true giant in American literature, including Toni Morrison, Langston Hughes and James Thurber, as you had mentioned among many others, but the trail also celebrates some literary figures who might be lesser known. So I'm hoping you can highlight one or two of these writers, Betty, that you had the opportunity to learn about in your research that maybe our listeners are not familiar with.

Betty Weibel (15:32):
I will give you two that really illustrate the depth of Ohio. And when I was visiting in Key West at Ernest Hemingway house, I looked up in his bedroom and there was a plaque to one of our figures, Sherwood Anderson, who is on the trail. The Clyde museum in Northwest Ohio pays tribute to Anderson, who is really the father of what many people consider realism writing. And he is considered a great influencer of many great writers, and Hemingway is among them. So definitely a very interesting character. His book Winesburg, Ohio was very scandalous, supposed to be fiction, but many people in Clyde thought it was a little too close to home and questioned it being fiction. So Sherwood Anderson is one figure. And another, just to touch on our children's literature, a personal love that everybody thinks is from Boston, and we reasserted that he is not. Robert McCloskey who wrote so many great children's books. Make Way for Ducklings has a statue in Boston Commons with the wonderful mother duck leading her ducklings across. And Robert McCloskey's from Hamilton, Ohio McCloskey Museum is beautiful. He won every children's award. He grew up there and that community influenced who he was and who he became. And Ohio's Midwest influences and the communities where these sites are located are so important because of their influence on authors as well. So Robert McCloskey is one to check out as well.

Laura Maylene Walter (17:09):
And can you share something that might have surprised you when you were working on this book?

Betty Weibel (17:15):
I think the biggest surprise was the depth of what I kept finding as I researched more and more, there are a few locations, libraries, as I said, that are open to the public that are actually world's largest collections like the Mazza Museum, the world's largest collection of children's picture book art. And they have a vault at the Billy Ireland Cartoon and Comic Museum in Columbus on the campus of Ohio State University and the Jerome and Lee theater museum have so many incredible displays, they're world renowned. And people come to visit these sites from outside of Ohio. And many of us don't even know they exist in our own backyard.

Laura Maylene Walter (17:55):
We are still in the pandemic. So I don't want to act as if it's behind us, but now that we're in 2022, a lot of these sites I believe have reopened. Can you give us any updates on the sites I, and their health during the pandemic? And if more people have been able to go visit in the last year or so,

Betty Weibel (18:15):
And we always encourage people to check the website in advance, because even though certain communities may be shut down a little bit, there are others that are just experiencing staffing issues. These are not large by the most part, large museums, because they may have limited staffing and be limited hours. So always check their websites, but they're small and they deserve our support. And many of the sites, as I mentioned, are historical markers where we give you the GPS coordinates in the book. So you could drive by the marker text is included. So if it's raining and you don't wanna get out of the car, you can be extra lazy, but those markers are open for the most part 24/7. They're free as so many of the library stops are in our book. And I really encourage you regardless of what the conditions are, is to visit some of these treasures in your backyard.

David Weaver (19:08):
Betty, can I jump in there talking about the historical markers? The most recent one is the Toni Morrison historical marker up there in Northwest Ohio, which is in Lorain and Ohioana, Ohio History Connection, and the Lorain County Public Library system had a hand all together of us in sponsoring that marker. We dedicated it last August, close to the second anniversary of Toni Morrison's passing. And very interestingly, the building it is in front of the Lorain Historical Society was at one time the Carnegie library in Lorain, Ohio. It was the public library where Toni Morrison had her first job as a bookshelf. So what an interesting connection, I mean, you're actually, the historical marker is in front of the place where she worked as a teenager and said it had a great influence on her. So some of these little things, you know, the little tidbits of info are just so fascinating.

Laura Maylene Walter (20:08):
Oh, thank you both for pointing those out. Especially, you know, the Toni Morrison. I think every writer I know in Ohio is so proud to claim Toni Morrison as one of ours, born in Lorain. So I encourage everyone to, if you're ever near Lorain, check that out for sure.

Betty Weibel (20:25):
I'll add on one more quick one, Laura, just because what David said, the historical markers, our state has more than 1700 of them. And in the literary area, there's only probably about 50 and they're all in the book, but in some communities like Mount Gilead, Ohio, the only thing that is a reminder that Dawn Powell, an incredible writer who was born there, the only story left for her is her historical marker. There's no home, no museum. So the markers are an incredible tribute. And all of the sites on the trail are people who are no longer living. We frequently get that question. When we do our talks, they are no longer living. So you can visit the sites, but we do keep updating the trail with new additions. And there were about nine that we added in 2021 because there are so many wonderful new additions like the Toni Morrison marker that David just mentioned.

David Weaver (21:21):
Laura, can I throw in another tidbit, a little point of pride for Ohio? I mean, of course Toni Morrison won the Pulitzer prize, the Nobel prize for literature. She received the presidential medal of freedom from president Obama, but her very, very, very first award of many was the Ohio book Award in 1975 for Sula, for her second novel. At that point, she was not really, I mean, she wasn't the Toni Morrison that became Toni Morrison, and even the Toni Morrison Society on their website, in their chronological list of her life, the very first award listed is the award for Sula.

Laura Maylene Walter (21:59):
That is fantastic. Ohioana has great taste. You know what you're doing! Thank you for pointing that out. Well, in addition to markers, as you both just mentioned, and the museums and the libraries and the birth places and all of these wonderful locations people can visit the trail also includes some larger literary events and festivals that happen throughout the state. That includes books by the banks festival in Cincinnati, the Buckeye Book Fair in Wooster. And of course your own Ohioana Book Festival. Now I've had the really good fortune of attending this festival twice as an author. So I can say firsthand that it's really a gem. And we're also lucky to have that event here in Ohio, but David, can you tell us about your 2022 festival, which is around the corner?

David Weaver (22:50):
After hoping that it would be a live event this year, we did decide to make it virtual once again, the last week of April. So it will be online again, more than 110 authors will be participating. We decided we needed to keep everybody safe a little bit longer. And also too, there are some change going on at the Columbus Metropolitan Library's main library, which hosts the book festival, they are getting ready next year will be the 150th anniversary of the library. So they're doing some renovations and things this year they're gonna be happening in the building at the time that we would've been doing our festival. So we decided we would do virtual this year. And so the 2020 book festival will be one of the cornerstone events of Columbus Metropolitan Library's 150th anniversary next year. So we're very excited about that. So that seems like a good reason to come back bigger and better next year.

David Weaver (23:44):
But again, we will still be doing the virtual festival. We found out last year in a post festival survey that we had viewers from 11 states outside of Ohio. So that was fantastic. So while there are downsides and everything, and of course, everybody would love to be in person and see and meet the authors in person. You really do cast a wide net and reach a huge audience that otherwise might not be able to participate. So we're very excited. We have a wonderful lineup of authors. Among them, we're very excited for the first time Wil Haygood the historian. A lot of people know his story that was made into a film The Butler by Lee Daniels, I always say about Wil, Wil's a friend of mine, I say Wil Hagood is the only man I know that has Oprah Winfrey's private number on speed dial.

Laura Maylene Walter (24:34):
Must be nice.

David Weaver (24:35):
So, so anyway, yes, and his new book is Colorization, a fascinating book, 100 years of black films in a white world. So he's been one of our most honored authors has done a number of events with Ohio in the past, but this will be the first time he's participating in the book festival. And we really have a wonderful lineup of authors from around the entire state. We like to say there's something for every reader of every age at the Ohioana book festival, April the 30th, it's the week of April the 25th with the main event on April the 30th.

Laura Maylene Walter (25:08):
Great. Yes, there's so much that people can check out so many authors and panels to enjoy all from the comfort of your own home. So I encourage listeners to check that out and good luck next year, your 2023 conference with the library's 150th anniversary here at Cleveland Public Library, we celebrated our 150th back in 2019 before the pandemic. So we had a giant street festival. So I hope for next year that it will be a giant in-person success for you. But thank you for sharing that.

David Weaver (25:41):
Thank you.

Laura Maylene Walter (25:41):
Well, I thought we could also recognize a few contemporary Ohio authors who are publishing today. So for example, the book's foreword includes a lovely note from Pulitzer prize-winning author Anthony Doerr, and also from National Book Award winner Jacqueline Woodson. Can you tell us about some of the contemporary authors that you've reached out to in this process, or just mention a few that either of you are especially proud of and would like to highlight?

Betty Weibel (26:09):
You know, I'll jump in Laura because Tony Doerr is amazing and he is from Geauga County where I live. And so that was particularly surprising for me to learn. And when I contacted him and asked him if he'd say a few words about Ohio's influence, he jumped on the opportunity to send us a note, even though he was in the process of his latest book that's now out, Cloud Cuckoo Land. So it's very exciting, a wonderful man and Jackie Woodson also never forgets her roots. This book is very important in that we connect the past with the present and the back of the book has a listing of Ohio writers. It has all of the past Ohioana Award winners as well. And it's broken out that way so that we will encourage you and the book festivals and fairs. So you'll get out there and meet writers of today.

Betty Weibel (27:03):
In fact, Tony was one of the early attendees at the first Ohioana Book Festival, when there were only 12 authors, he was one of them in the first year, the year I was able to attend as an author, I was so honored to meet one of the speakers who was presenting as well, Celeste Ng, who we all know now probably doesn't have as much time with all of her mini series and writing. And I know she has a new book coming out. So it's so important that we connect the past and the present. And this book does inspire a lot of writers of tomorrow as well when they see all the great writers that have come from the state, but I'm sure David has more to add on that.

David Weaver (27:41):
Tony Doerr is a friend and is a past Marvin Grant winner. So whenever I point that out, Tony won the award in the year 2000. Seven years later, he was at the very first Ohioana Book Festival. And eight years after that, he won the Pulitzer Prize for All the Light We Cannot See. So we're very proud and honored. And I asked him one time I said, Tony, I said, really, you know, how did winning the Marvin grant affect you? And he said, I actually was almost on the throes of giving up writing and concentrating on teaching. He said, the only thing I can tell you, he said about winning something like that. He said, when you're a young writer trying to break in, there's so much competition. So, and he said, winning something like the Marvin grant, he said, I can only say it's like someone who is credible points a finger at you and says, keep your eye on this writer.

David Weaver (28:30):
They're good. And he said within year winning the Marvin grant, he had a contract with his first agent, his first book. And two years later won the Barnes and Noble Discovery Prize of $10,000. So we're very thrilled and proud in honor of him. Then I wanna throw out another author because again, she did play a big part. And that's Jennifer Fisher, who is the person whose collection is the Nancy Drew collection at the Toledo Public Library. And she was very wonderful as we were trying to put this together and sharing a thing she's working right now on what she hopes. And certainly she knows more about the subject than anyone or the definitive biography of Nancy Drew. So, so very good. So it's been wonderful to connect with these contemporary writers as well as spend time with the writers of the past.

Laura Maylene Walter (29:22):
And finally, my last question in light of all the work in all the research, you've both done on behalf of Ohio's literary community. I'm wondering if you can each share a bit about how you'd personally define Ohio's literary heritage. What do you find most striking or notable about our state in terms of its connections to authors books and literature?

David Weaver (29:43):
Well, as I've said, and Betty and I talked about it, I kind of thought that was puffy of me to say that Ohio was one of America's great literary centers, but it is, but it is when you look at the breadth of the depth of the author who have called Ohio home at one time or another, whether they're born here, lived here, living here now, et cetera, things of that nature. So I think we really can make that claim just as much as any other state can. I was actually asked about it at an event a couple years ago, I had my Ohioana Library Association badge on and somebody saw it, said Ohioana Library. So what is that? And I said, well, we promote Ohio as one of the great literary centers, I said, and celebrate Ohio authors and books. And he said, just Ohio authors and books, isn't that sort of parochial? And I said, you mean like cheering for the Buckeyes? I said, if a state can be proud of its football, baseball, and basketball players, why can't it be proud of its novelists? Its poets, its essayists? I said, Ohio's produced some of the greatest. I said, yes, LeBron James is a wonderful, fantastic basketball player, but hey, Toni Morrison won the Nobel Prize in literature. That's not too shabby.

Laura Maylene Walter (30:59):
I love that. I like to think about it that way. Now, whenever I, I find myself in a sports-related conversation and I'm completely lost. I'll just think about all the great authors who came from this state. Maybe that will help me out. Anyway, Betty, do you have a response as well?

Betty Weibel (31:12):
I would just piggyback off what you just said. And David said is that our trail and our literary heritage is still evolving. And I love that we are, are continuing to add to it. As we learn of either authors we missed like President Ulysses S. Grant. I did not have him on the original trail. And I did not realize he was one of the greatest memoirists. Did not know that. So now his sites are on the trail as is Lowell Thomas, his home and museum in Darke County. The Garst museum pays tribute to one of his books and his history of Lawrence in Arabia, which became the movie Lawrence of Arabia, but more current figures like Erma Bombeck, the humorist who's been added to the trail and Leigh Bracket in Trumbull County who did one of the Star Wars scripts in science fiction. So the diversity of our writers, the depth, it's constantly evolving, and we'll be proud to add more new writers to that trail in the future.

Laura Maylene Walter (32:14):
Well, thank you both so much for all of your work and for bringing the Ohio literary trail to everyone in our state and beyond. Thank you.

David Weaver (32:23):
Thank you, Laura, for having us.

Laura Maylene Walter (32:26):
Thank you so much to our guests, David Weaver and Betty Weibel. Learn more about the Ohio Literary Trail and the Ohioana Library Association by visiting Ohioana.org and order the Ohio Literary Trail: A Guide wherever books are sold. Proceeds benefit the Ohioana Library Association. Page Count is presented by the Ohio Center of the Book at Cleveland Public Library. Learn more online at ohiocenterforthebook.org. Follow us on Twitter @cplocfb, or find us on Facebook. If you'd like to get in touch, email ohiocenterforthebook@cpl.org and put podcast in the subject line. Finally, follow me on Twitter and Instagram @LauraMaylene. Thanks for listening, and we'll be back in two weeks for another chapter of Page Count.